Trust from NFALawyers.com kicked back by ATF

Home Forums NFA Tracker Form 4 Questions Trust from NFALawyers.com kicked back by ATF

This topic contains 17 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Dixit 2 months, 3 weeks ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #84756

    Fishstyx
    Participant
    • Posts: 4
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    So, after a year of waiting I get a call from my dealer that my Form 4 / Trust was kicked back. I used a trust drawn up by NFALawyers.com that includes a amendment to make me the sole trustee. It was submitted with my RP questionnaire, photo and prints. The ATF kicked it back, “X”d the amendment page and said I need to return with RP form, photos and prints for the other trustees named on the original trust.

    The NFALawyers.com site still instructs users of their trust to use this amendment:

    FAQs

    NFALawyers said the amendment was approved by the ATF. Beware.

  • #84816

    Levi
    Participant
    • Posts: 23
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    seriously? I submitted a form1 with that amendment for 1 other person. they STROOONGLY advised the amendment is legit. otherwise i would have gone through the trouble of getting her fp cards and photo. im calling nfalawyers.com tomorrow. Will u please update as to what options they gave u? such as, ok just remove the co trustees and proceed with my paperwork? or simply just have to resubmit their stuff? thanks

  • #84817

    Fishstyx
    Participant
    • Posts: 4
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    So, I got a response from NFAlawyers today. They said some ATF lawyer took issue with a sentence in the amendment that stated the amendment is void when they issue the stamp (seemed a little sketchy at the time). So, at some point they changed the template to remove that sentence and apparently ‘now’ it’s ok again. They said I should send it back with the updated amendment, but I’m nevous about that because when the ATF returned it, the examiner included an explicit note that I need to provide RPQ, photo and prints for the other people. I’m afraid if I just send them another amendment with a sentence deleted that will just piss them off.

  • #84818

    Levi
    Participant
    • Posts: 23
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    Ok thanks man. I sent Dean Phillips and Elizabeth his paralegal a lengthy email and will call tomorrow.

    Let me know what u ultimately decide to do, I already sent my co trustee money to have all their crap done and sent to me. I would add a Cover Sheet stating what the one sentence change was so that they dont overlook it and trash the change.

    How do they want u to resubmit it? Through USPS again or do they give u an email option?

  • #84832

    Jay
    Participant
    • Posts: 1
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    Seriously? I’ve got 4 Form 1s and 4 Form 4s waiting to get approved with that same trust and amendment. I questioned Dean in the beginning about being the only one on the trust. Dean Philips told me I had to have a second person. Been waiting long enough already, now I’ll probably have to deal with these same issues as you.

  • #84833

    Levi
    Participant
    • Posts: 23
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    This is the email NFALawyers.com sent me. Hope it helps.

    Thank you for contacting us. You are correct, this is very recent issue but it is easily fixed. After previously approving these amendments for the last year, some of the ATF attorneys took issue with a single sentence in the amendment a few weeks ago. It is not uncommon for the ATF to make changes in their policy frequently and without notice (like with their opinions on the sig brace, the angled foregrip, etc).

    We consulted with the ATF chief examiner and he advised us to revise the amendment and resubmit, and assured us there should not be any further problems. We do a great deal of volume in gun trusts, so the ATF worked with us to fix the issue quickly and efficiently.

    I have attached the revised amendment here. If the ATF contacts you requesting the co-trustees’ information, fill this out, sign and date it, and send it to the ATF examiner for your application (you can get their fax or email address from the NFA Branch at (304) 616-4500 when you give them the control number on your denial letter). Once the examiner receives it, they will continue processing and you should have your tax stamp in a few weeks. This will not reset your processing time, they will continue it from exactly where it was in the line.

    You will have to wait until the ATF gets to that point on your application, as they will not accept the amendment if you send it out before they ask. The best thing to do is just wait. We have had several clients already go through this process, and they received their stamps quickly. We had to wait until we had confirmation that the stamps were being approved before we could contact other clients about the update, which we now have.

  • #84854

    D-Day
    Participant
    • Posts: 11
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    Thank you to all who have commented on this thread. I sent an email today and will follow up Monday with a call to Dean Phillips at NFA lawyers to discuss. It is very frustrating that the ATF has changed their policy and will not accept the old amendment. I have printed the latest version to the amendment and have it ready to go when (as I can only assume now) I receive notice of the rejected Form 4 submission. It has been eleven months since the check was cashed. As one of my co-trustees is overseas and the other is relatively disinterested in following up on things (also out of state), the amendment path is the only real way to go for me. I sincerely hope that I can make this work. I will say that every time I have called or emailed the Phillips, they have been very responsive. I will get back as soon as I find out what happens next.

  • #84880

    Fishstyx
    Participant
    • Posts: 4
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    So, I’m going to take their advice and try to fax the ATF the revised amendment. I’ll update when I get a response.

    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by  Fishstyx.
  • #84911

    D-Day
    Participant
    • Posts: 11
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    All. As I had expected, I received quick replies from the Phillips at NFA Lawyers. Dean told me the new amendment WILL work. Here’s part of a follow-up email form Elizabeth. Keep the faith.

    I’m sorry that we both contacted you! It’s been a busy Monday so we haven’t compared notes today. There is a possibility that your application will get by, either because you’ve already passed that point in processing before they changed their opinion on the amendment or that you have one of the old amendments which did not have that last sentence (it is something that we added in November 2016 as a failsafe in case people forgot to shred the amendment).

    We have had confirmation from at least 5 clients who have already gone through the resubmission of the updated amendment and gotten their approval right away, so we know it is successful.

    I have recently been told that the ATF is processing applications from fall of 2016, so I would go ahead and give them a call to check the status of your application since it is significantly past that point. Use this number, in case you already do not have it: (304) 616-4500.

  • #84918

    Fishstyx
    Participant
    • Posts: 4
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    Looks like this is going to be a minor inconvenience. The ATF let me email a scanned copy of the modified amendment.

    If you get the correction letter, call the ATF and ask to talk to your examiner about the correction letter. I had to leave a voicemail, but received a call-back within an hour. I explained the situation and asked if I could simply submit a modified amendment. After being told that the ATF person couldn’t provide me any advice on how to proceed, I got the message between the lines when I was provided a email address to send the updated amendment. I printed, signed/dated the amendment, scanned it and emailed it to the examiner. Within 10 minutes I received a confirmation of receipt.

    Fingers crossed.

  • #85252

    Dixit
    Participant
    • Posts: 4
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    Can someone post the updated amendment?

    I have three more in line for approval. But what is odd is prior to this I also had two more for approval (recently for approved about 1mo ago) and used the same amendment that Dean posted on his site and didn’t get any kickback.

    I’m guessing my three waiting for approval may now get kicked back as it seems this is a recent change on the ATF side.

    Ive emailed Dean in the past and I have to be honest here, he has never replied to my emails. Seemed to me (again my opinion) he just wanted my initial trust creation fees and that’s it. I emailed him about four different times about questions about certain things in the trust. Never received a response. Before the trust got created he was quick to respond and even called me.

    Dixit

  • #85274

    Levi
    Participant
    • Posts: 23
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    Just email elizabeth@deanphillipslaw.com and she will email u the updated amendment. Unfortunately we cant do anything until ATF reaches out and kicks back the Trust requesting your co trustees cards/photos/RP. another on this thread said he called, asked for examiner handling his case and explained the situation, and she gave him the prompts to upload and email back the corrected ATF. No response back from this individual as far as update and its been weeks, so this is def prolonging the already torture wait.

  • #85283

    D-Day
    Participant
    • Posts: 11
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    Good news (I think) for those with old NFA Lawyers’ Amendments that are being rejected. My FFL got an email this morning that stated: (I xxx’ed out actual personal information)

    Good morning
    I am working on a form 4 for xxx Weapons Trust, serial number xxxxxxxx.
    The amendment to the trust will need to be corrected or we will need finger prints and rpq’s for all rp’s
    At the bottom of the amendment by xxxxx’s signature there is a line that starts out This amendment shall be null and void …
    That line is basically saying that once we approve the form the amendment is no longer valid.
    Let me know which way they want to go forward
    Thank you
    Kerri K Hinzman
    Contractor- BA-ZAI
    Research Assistant
    National Firearms Act Division
    304-616-4506

    My FFL confirmed we could do all of this via email, so he attached the corrected amendment, and the ATF stated that this was all they needed.

    My guess now is that this will be approved in the next couple of weeks and I’ll get my stamp. I will keep everyone posted. Btw, my check was cashed on 18 January 2017 and I am just short of a year out. jwd

  • #85288

    Dixit
    Participant
    • Posts: 4
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    I found that the original link that Dean had on his site for the Amendment was already updated to the latest version of it.

    Here is the link for those that need it (straight off their site).

    https://nfalawyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/41F-Amendment.pdf

  • #85299

    Dean
    Participant
    • Posts: 1
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    Can someone post the updated amendment?

    I have three more in line for approval. But what is odd is prior to this I also had two more for approval (recently for approved about 1mo ago) and used the same amendment that Dean posted on his site and didn’t get any kickback.

    I’m guessing my three waiting for approval may now get kicked back as it seems this is a recent change on the ATF side.

    Ive emailed Dean in the past and I have to be honest here, he has never replied to my emails. Seemed to me (again my opinion) he just wanted my initial trust creation fees and that’s it. I emailed him about four different times about questions about certain things in the trust. Never received a response. Before the trust got created he was quick to respond and even called me.

    Dixit

    Hello Dixit,

    What email are you using? We work night and day and often on the weekend to respond to emails.

    If you ever have trouble getting in touch with me you can always call. My work cell phone number is the number that is on NFALawyers.com. We are always happy to speak with you. 770 900 9175 Do not hesitate to call.

    Best Regards,
    Dean Phillips

    • #85311

      Dixit
      Participant
      • Posts: 4
      Join Date: 01/12/2017

      Was using your email that came from your nfalawyers.com site when the trust was originally created. Had your name in the email address.

      Good to hear from you though. Thanks for responding here.

      Dixit

  • #85559

    D-Day
    Participant
    • Posts: 11
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    All. Definitely good news. See my previous input on 3 January 2018.
    As Dean and Elizabeth told me to expect, my trust with the new amendment was approved two days after they notified me that the old amendment would not work for them. As well, I received the approved stamp today, thirteen days after the amendment paperwork was resolved. I know there others of you out there waiting for your stamps but for those that have updated the NFA tracker, mine is the long pole since the beginning of 2017 submissions at 352 days for the tax stamp approval process.
    With all this in mind in my opinion, and for all of you who have a trust out there that may get kicked back for the old amendment, you should realize that there is light at the end of the tunnel once you get you initial rejection and forward the correct amendment.
    For those of you out there who have trusts with multiple other responsible persons attached, you should feel confident that you can submit paperwork for new ATF items with this amendment and not have to go through all the paperwork for those other people.
    I wish all of you good luck as you wait for your stamps. The trend is definitely getting smaller in general. jwd

  • #85722

    Dixit
    Participant
    • Posts: 4
    Join Date: 01/12/2017

    Interestingly enough I just received my Form1 tax stamp and didnt get denied (which is what I honestly thought would happen after reading this thread) with my original 2yr old NFALawyers Trust. Guess Im counting that as a blessing. I got two other stamps in there for approval, one of them still has the old NFALawyers Trust amendment, the last one (submitted in December 20) I sent the revised amendment in there once I saw this thread. So worst case the one waiting with old Amendment may get denied and will have to wait till I get that and send in the new Amendment.

    Dixit

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Write Reviews, Submit Tracking Data and More!

Subscribe to NFA Tracker, a community dedicated to tracking and reporting NFA transfer times as reported by users.

Join Now