Pre-41f submission vs. future submission

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This topic contains 6 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Fredmisery 6 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #77500

    Etan
    Participant
    • Posts: 2
    Join Date: 02/19/2017

    I submitted a Form 4 Individual Trust application and the required forms prior to July 13, 2016 for a suppressor. If/when it is approved and I get a stamp, what process do I need to follow the next time I want to make a purchase? Since the ATF has already approved my trust once and under pre-41F rules, do I still need to do the post-41F process, i.e., fingerprint cards, etc?

  • #77520

    xray2040
    Participant
    • Posts: 22
    Join Date: 02/19/2017

    Hi Etan,

    Unfortunately, the next time you want to purchase/build a suppressor or SBR/SBR/AOW under 41F, you will have to submit mugshots & fingerprints for *every* trust responsible person (RP) under your trust. This step will have to be repeated for **every subsequent purchase/build**. Additionally, the purchaser may have to notify their local Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO- normally the county sheriff) via email. If you are purchasing a suppressor, the FFL should send this notification for you.

    Under 41F, a copy of the trust has to be sent to ATF every time a RP is added during a purchase/build or a purchase/build occurs 2 years after the first time the trust was submitted, whichever occurs first.

    To make the process easier, check to see if any of your local gun stores have a SilencerShop kiosk. One of the major gripes with 41F is the ATF website doesn’t accept electronic mugshots/fingerprints. Silencershop kiosks fix this problem in addition to the CLEO notification.

    Alternately, your local police stations can work with you to produce ATF-acceptible fingerprint cards (this link is illustrative: http://www.dcaa.mil/newhires/Applicant_Fingerprint_Instructions.pdf . Check to see if they offer a ‘free day’ (normally the police charge for this service if it’s not for a job application). You can get passport photos at the Silencershop kiosks or any drugstore.

  • #77645

    Etan
    Participant
    • Posts: 2
    Join Date: 02/19/2017

    Thanks! It is unfortunate, but until legislation changes…

  • #77650

    geclevel
    Participant
    • Posts: 26
    Join Date: 02/19/2017

    Question about responsibile person,
    I submitted a form 4 trust with myself as the only responsible person. Once I get the suppressor can I add a responsible person to the trust without submitting their fingerprints and photos?

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 4 weeks ago by  geclevel.
    • #77656

      Hellrazr44
      Participant
      • Posts: 37
      Join Date: 02/19/2017

      The answer is yes, you can add a responsible person AFTER you get the suppressor without notifying the ATF.

      I took this directly from the ATF publication entitled “General 41F Questions and Answers”:

      Q: Will new responsible persons, added after the making or transfer, be subject to the same requirements?
      A: Once an application has been approved, no documentation is required to be submitted to ATF when a new responsible person is added to a trust or legal entity. However, should a responsible person change after the application has been submitted, but before it is approved, the applicant or transferee must contact the NFA Branch for guidance.

  • #77655

    xray2040
    Participant
    • Posts: 22
    Join Date: 02/19/2017

    I’m not a lawyer and may be wrong but I believe the answer is yes. If anyone has a different take on the regs and can cite chapter & verse, please respond.

  • #78411

    Fredmisery
    Participant
    • Posts: 11
    Join Date: 02/19/2017

    Read pages 2712 and 2713 of the federal register, they were clear about not requiring notification of changes to “responsible persons” after a form had been filed. There is not a chapter and verse to cite, the federal register isn’t broken down that way, it’s not a bible. You’ll have to actually read the two pages for the information…
    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2016-01-15/pdf/2016-00192.pdf

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